Tokyo, November 6, 1958

GIST OF TALKS SUB-COMMITTEE ON VESSEL, COMMITTEE ON KOREAN CLAIMS
1. Time and Place:
November 4, 1958 (Tuesday) 03:00 - 04:15 p.m., at Room 411, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Japanese Government
2. Conferees:
Korean side:
Mr. LEE Ho
Mr. CHOI Kyu Hah
Mr. CHEE Choul Keun
Mr. CHIN Pil Shik
Mr. MOON Chul Soon
Mr. OHM, Young Dal
Mr. ROH Jae Won
Japanese side:
Mr. AWASAWA Katsuno
Mr. TAKANO Tokichi
Mr. YABE Masanobu
Mr. YOSHIDA
Mr. HANDA Go
Mr. SUGANUMA Kiyoshi
3. Gist of Talks:
Mr. Lee:
Shall we open today's meeting ? At the sixteenth session, the Korean side requested the Japanese side to present the list of vessels falling under the scope of Agenda A, with the reason that the list of the vessels which was submitted by the Japanese side at the First Korea-Japan Conference under Agenda 1 was not satisfactory and realistic. However, as the request made by the Korean side has not been met by the Japanese side, namely the Japanese side has not presented an additional list of the vessels to be returned to Korea, I would like to put forth a first list of vessels, in order to expedite the proceeding of our meeting, which are falling under the scope of Agenda A and, at the same time, which can easily be returned by Japan, in view of the course of the discussions made at previous Conferences.
(Thus, Mr. Lee handed the list to Chief member of the Japanese delegation Mr. Awasawa. The copy of the list is attached hereto.)
Mr. Awasawa:
As discrepancies of views exist between both sides in connection with legal interpretation of the basis of claims by the Korean side under Agenda A, the Japanese side is not able to give an answer whether or not it will turn over to the Korean side the vessels enumerated in the said list. Howerer, the Japanese side will study it, later. You have just told me that the list now you have handed to me was containing a part of the vessels which the Korean side claims against the Japanese side under Agenda A. I wonder if you can tell me the total number of the vessels to he claimed by the Korean side,
Mr. Lee:
At the present time, it is difficult for the Korean side to tell the total number; nevertheless, the Korean side will bring it to the light in proportion to the progress of our works at this Subcomittee.
Mr. Awasawa
Then, do you know. the total number of the vessels under reference ?
Mr. Lee:
The Korean side knows the total number of the vessels witch it is going to claim against Japan; however, the number will be brought to light as our meeting proceeds on.
Mr. Awasawa:
What did you mean by that the vessels contained in the list ware those vessels on which there would be no difficulties for the Japanese side to return to the Korean side?
Mr. Lee:
The Japanese side recognized at previous Conferences that the vessels now you referred to were the vessels of Korean registry and were in Japan. This being the case, there will be no trouble at all in delivering them to the Korean side.
Mr. Awasawa:
Let me put one more question in this regard. Are all the vessels appearing on the list the vessels which the Japanese side recognized as were registered in Korea and remained in Japan ?
Mr. Lee:
Not all of the vessels enumerated in the aforesaid list are the vessels which the Japanese side recognized as those of Korean registry and of existing in Japan at the first, second, and third Conferences.
Mr. Awasawa:
The question on the turning over to the Korean side of the vessels of Korean registry under Agenda A were discussed at the previous Conferences and both sides were not able to reach the stage of final conclusion of the issue. And, also, both delegation to the subcommittee on Vessels exchanged view on this question at present Talks, but the basis problem has not been solved yet between them. Therefore, my delegation feels that the ground of turning over the vessels of Korean registry to the Korean side under Agenda A is not clarified, neither Diet nor people of Japan may acquises in the turning over the vessels in question by Japan to Korea.
Mr. Lee:
I can hardly understand your view in this regard. This question was fully discussed at previous Conferences between both sides concerning the legal basis of the Korean claims under Agenda A. Furthermore, it has also been discussed at the meeting of this Subcommittee. So, there exists no difficulty in returning those vessels coming under Agenda A to the Korean side. It is much regretted that the Japanese side, nevertheless, attempts to raise another questions on the matter which had been out of question. This being the Japanese intention, I cannot help being skeptical whether the Japanese side has any sincerity of turning vessels over to Korea.
Mr. Lee:
Would you please tell me frankly whether or not your side has any intention of turning over the vessels under reference to the Korean side ?
Mr. Awasawa:
To be frank, the Japanese side does not think that both sides have reached the stage of conclusion in regard to the legal basis of Korean claims to the Korean registry vessels. For instance, the Japanese side is unable to understand how the Military ordinace No.33 has any relation whatsoever with SCAPIN 2168. The Japanese side feels it difficult regardless of its sincerity, to turn the vessels over to the Korean side under Agenda A, unless question of the legal basis are cleared
Mr. Lee:
Do you like to repeat the discussions on the relationship between the SCAPIN 2168 and Military Ordinance No.33 all over again ?
Mr. Awasawa:
I would like to know how SCAPIN 2168 has any relation with Military Ordinance No.33.
Mr. Lee:
I may answer to your question; however, I cannot but feel that your side tries to procrastinate the proceeding of our meetings by repeating such a question as has already bean settled.
Mr. Lee:
The interpretation that SCAPIN 2168 finds its origin in the Military Ordinance No.33 is not unilaterally made by the Korean side. The authorities which issued the said SCAPIN interpreted it in the same way as the Korean side does. When SCAP issued the said instruction No.2168 to the Japanese Government, it sent a note to the Korean Government, informing the latter of its decision on the vessels problem. In the afore-said note, the military authorities clearly interpreted that SCAPIN 2168 has legal bearings on the Military Ordinance No.33. Furthermore aside from Military Ordinance No.33, the Japanese Government has an obligation to turn over the vessels of Korean registry by virtue of SCAPIN 2168 itself. And, as the Japanese side has not fulfilled its liabilities, the obligation of Japan to turn over the vessels under reference remains unchanged.
Mr. Takano:
The Korean side presented today a list of vessels falling under the scope of Agenda A and it said that the list covered a part of the vessels to be turned over to the Korean side. Therefore, it is expected that the Korean side may submit another lists containing a part of the vessels coming under the scope of Agenda A, and, later, another part of the list of the vessels under Agenda B, and so on. Under such circumstances, It is very difficult for the Japanese side to decide upon its attitude on this issue. Therefore, it is hoped that the Korean side will put forth a complete list of the vessels concerned.
Mr. Lee:
As the Japanese side desires taht the Korean side present a complete list of the vessels concerned, my delegation will take the desire into consideration. However, should the Japanese side have sincerity in this regard, there would be no reason why the Japanese side is hesitating to give a clear-out answer to the Korean side concerning the return of the veesele of Korean registry. And as for the legal basis for the Korean claim to the Korean registry vessels, I would like to add a word. The Korean registry vessels had been vested in and owned by the Military Government of the United States in Korea in accordance with the said Military Ordinance No.33, and, later, the vessels were duly transferred to the Republic of Korea Government under an agreement between the US and Korea. The validity of such dispositions were recognised thereafter by Japan in accordance with paragraph b, Article 4 of the Peace Treaty between the Allied Powers and Japan.
Mr. Takano:
The validity of the disposition which Japan recognised under the Article under reference applied only to those dispositions which had already been executed by the time of coming into force of the Peace Treaty. Therefore, the disposition which had not yet been made at the time of the coming into effect of the said Treaty should be excluded from the recognition by Japan of the validity of the disposition made by or pursuant to the directives of the United States Military Government.
Mr. Lee:
The disposition does not mean the physical transfer only, but includes the transfer of the ownership of certain properties.
Mr. Awasawa:
I hope the Korean side will submit a complete list of all the vessels coming under the scope of Agenda A.
Mr. Choi:
The Korean side is going to present adittional lists to the Japanese side, in due course of time; however, this delegation can hardly understand the Japanese stand that it can not give an answer to the Korean side on the return of the vessels contained in the first list presented by the Korean side at today's meeting, unless a complete list of the vessels concerned is submitted by the Korean side.
Mr. Takano:
The Japanese side, for its part feels it difficult to make up its own attitude in connection with the list which is said to be covering just a part of the vessels falling within the scope of Agenda A.
Mr. Choi:
In that case, your side may say to the Korean side which vessels are all right and which ones are not all right.
Mr. Lee:
I would like to ask the Japanese delegation to give my delegation a clear answer on the list at the next meeting, as the Korean side has presented today a list of the vessels falling within the scope of Agenda A.
Mr. Takano:
Since there exists discrepancies of views between both sides on the legal basis of Korean claims on vessels, it cannot receive the list formally, but just for its own reference.
Mr. Takano:
The list in question was received for reference.
Mr, Lee:
When shall we hold next meeting ?
Mr. Awasawa:
How about next Tuesday ?
Mr. Lee:
Can't we meet earlier than that ?
Mr. Awasawa:
The Japanese side has full schedule until that date.
Mr. Lee:
Well, then, time ?
Mr. Awasawa:
I suggest 03:00 p.m.
Mr. Lee:
That will do.
Mr. Lee:
Any suggestion on press release ?
Mr. Awasawa:
I would like to suggest that we state that both sides continued substantial discussions on the vessels under Agenda A, and it was decided that the ninteenth session of the Subcommittee on Vessels would be held on the eleventh of November, 1958 (Tuesday) at p.m.
Mr. Lee:
That will be all right.
(TEXT OF JOINT PRESS RELEASE READS: The Subcommittee continued substantial discussions on Agenda A and it was decided that the next meeting would be held at three p.m. on November 11, 1958 (Tuesday).

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