December 2, 1958

GIST OF TALES TENTH SESSION SUB-COMMITTEE ON OTHER CLAIMS REGARDING KOREAN ART OBJECTS
1. Time and place:
10:30-11:45 a.m., November 29, 1958, Room 411, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Japanese Government
2. Conferees:
Korean side:
Mr. CHOI, Kyu Hah
Mr. CHIN, Pil Shik
Mr. MOON, Chul Soon
Mr. ROH, Jae Won
Mr. ORM, Young Dal
Japanese side:
Mr. ITAGAKI, Osamu
Mr. YOSHIKAWA, Shigezo
Mr. HANDA, Go
Mr. SUGANUMA, Kiyoshi
Mr. TSUGHIYA, Minao
3. Gist of talks:
Mr. ITAGAKI:
Early this week, we had a meeting of the Cabinet Ministers including the Prime Minister to discuss on the matters regarding the Japan-Korea Talks. I was summoned to the said meeting to make explanation on the pending problems, especially on the Korean art objects. It is true that the meeting covered many of the subject problems and a conclusion was reached at the meeting on the fishery problem to submit a provisional agreement on fisheries between Japan and Korea. However, with regard to the other problem of the Talks, i.e. those under sub-committees on Vessels and, on Other Claims Regarding Korean Art Objects, at the meeting, many opinions were, presented that, since the two sub-committees were faced with difficulties as to the proceedings of their works and the subjects of the sub-committees should be settled in connection with these of various committees, the matters regarding the proceedings of the works of the respective committees should be re-examined at the higher levels of both sides of the Talks.
I, therefore, am not in a position today to enter into the substantial discussions on the art objects problem.
Mr. CHOI:
As you know very well, view has already been exchanged on the art objects problem, and I here come to taday's session with the expectation that there would be some substantial Answers from the Japanese side, now that internal political problems which allegedly stood in the way of living definite answers to the Korean request were now over.
However, hearing Mr. ITAGAKI's statement as above, I am really surprised, because it is, in the first place, incomprehensible that the subjects of this sub-committee should be dealt together with those of the other committees. Furthermore, as regards your statement on the "higher levels negotiations on the 'proceedings' of the two sub-committees", I can not but doubt whether the Japanese side has any sincerity toward an early settlement of the problem on Korean art objects. Under the circumstance, when I heard that the Japanese side is thinking of another means for the settlement of the subjects of two ▣...▣ sub-committees in a different way, I can't see whether the attitude of the Japanese side is in favour of settlement of pending problems of the Talks. Since your statement is of some seriousness, I wish that you repeat it for us to know it better.
Mr. ITAGAKI:
I think there is a misunderstanding in this regard by the Korean side. Of course, I, too, believe that it is batter to discuss the pending questions at their respective committees or sub -committees, but, in view of the past experience, there arose so many difficult questions that the settlement in the usual way has become hard to be made. It is of course desirable to settle the art objects problem at this sub-committee, but some of the Cabinet Ministers still think the domestic conditions make impossible such separate settlement of art objects problems from that of other issues. It is also difficult to settle the problem at this stage, because the people would not understand a solution as such.
At the present stage whore the Talks develops, the majority of the Cabinet Ministers viewed that this matter should be considered again according to the future prospect of the Talks. They viewed that the higher levels of both sides of the Talks should take up the problem as to the proceeding of the two sub-committees, and, thereafter, the respective sub-committees could work again on their tasks. As a matter of fact, my impression was that there would be a meeting between Ambassador Sawada and Minister Yin on this problem. The atmosphere of the cabinet meeting was observed to be that, since there occurred difficulties regarding the matters on art objects and vessels, re-examination is necessary on the way of the proceeding of the two sub-committees.
Mr. CHOI:
Frankly speaking, your statement is completely against my expectation with which I have come to this session. My impression from the attitude of the Japanese side is that it is dragging this sub-committee to some other place which is apart from that where it is expected to go. Through last nine meetings of this sub-committee, our side had presented our demand regarding the art objects, together with enough of views of the Korean side with regard to the return of Korean art objects. If you read the records of the past sessions, you will easily find that not a bit of substantial statement regarding a direction toward the solution of the pending questions of the sub-committee has been presented by the Japanese side. The Japanese side has avoided presenting its substantial opinions under the excuse that the Japanese Government has had no time to decide basic policy on the art objects due to the internal political difficulties in connection with the Diet proceedings, etc.
The Japanese side, however, made it clear on many occasions that it would try with sincerity" to settle the pending problem on art objects, and our side has waited for constructive answer from the Japanese side, trusting the Japanese "sincerity" at its face value.
However, what the Japanese side has brought out actually, is only the repetitious statement that it still is unable to enter into the substantial discussions, with another excuse. I cannot but doubt where the real Japanese intention is in this regard, to mention nothing of our disappointment in finding another evidence of the Japanese "insincerity" toward the art objects problem. Under the circumstances, I cannot find any propriety of the Japanese repetition of the old empty statement including another way of Japanese excuse made today.
As regards your statement on "people's understanding...", I know that it is a tendency of the modern diplomacy to conduct negotiations with the understanding and the support of the people, but, frankly speaking, why is it so difficult for you to obtain your people's understanding on this problem, despite that the problem is so simple and clear in its legal and historical backgrounds? Our delegation has had a considerable interest in the reporting tendencies of the Japanese newspapers, but the sub-stances they carry cannot but make us doubt if the Japanese side is truly making efforts to introduce to its people what and where the fundamental points are in the problems between Korea and Japan, and why such problems should be solved. What we get as an impression from such reports is that, in Japan, the Korea-Japan Over-all Talks are being changed into the Korea-Japan Fisheries Talks.
You say you are trying to settle this problem with the understanding of your people, but what I observe from the papers here is that you are not trying to deeper the people's understanding, but only attempting to have your people misunderstand the purpose of the present talks. I will tell you frankly that this is not the Korea-Japan fisheries conference, but the Korea-Japan overall talks in the literal sense of the words.
Mr. ITAGAKI:
Though it has been our internal political difficulties that delayed the solution of the matter on art objects, I must state that this Sub-committee was set up rather prematurely in terms of timing. It is true that our side agreed to the establishment of the Sub-committee on Korean Art Objects, but the situation at present has not been ripened to make a separate settlement of the matters concerned. I must say that the political situations of our side has not turned out to make such solution of the problem on art objects, separately from other issues.
The same situation can be told of the Korean side which had to delay the opening of the Committee on Fisheries and Peace
I hope, anyhow, you would understand that we have not been able to decide on the fundamental question of the art objects problem.
Regarding "the understanding of the people" it is true that there exist a peculiar feeling and ignorance on the points concerned among a pert of Japanese people, but we must obtain the people's understanding on the solution of the problem concerned, and we must wait for a situation proper to do so.
If we talk of the press tendency, the Seoul Press, for instance, is dealing only with the art objects problem. From this, I can say that the same situations exist with your side, as with our side.
Mr. CHOI:
Regarding the reports of the Seoul Press, I can say that it well reflects the feeling and reasoning of Korean people. If we only thought of money-value interest from the present Talks, Seoul papers should have dealt with other problems which are numerous times more economically valuable than the art objects.
Mr. CHOI(Cont'):
Such reports of the Seoul Press represent the honest intention of our people that, unlike tie Japanese people, we should exert every effort for the settlement of various pending problems between the two countries so that the peoples of the two countries could live on a peaceful basis in future. The Seoul press reports show ardent desire of Korean people that the art objects taken to Japan should find their places back to the site of their historical origin, which is the national demand of the entire Korean people.
I even remember that, since the end of the World War II, the Japanese Government has on many occasions made public its full support for the self-determination of end due respect for the history of the newly independent nations. If so, there can't be any reason why Japanese people as well as their Government are unable to comprehend the significance of the due demand of Korean people for return of their art objects which are their own historical and inherited property belonging to their cultural heritage.
Circumstances being as such, I would like to reiterate, that, in order to promptly settle this matter, this subcommittee should be directed toward its target of solving the substantial matters one after another, and I hope the Japanese side would respond to the Korean request for the return of Korean art objects at the earliest possible date.
Mr. ITAGAKI:
I would like to invite your attention to the fact that, according to the Asahi-Shinbun, for instance, the public opinion is not necessarily opposing to the return of art objects, and also knows the point of the Korean requests concerned.
As to the proceeding of this sub-committee, I think it might as well be discussed between the higher levels of both sides as early as possible, For our side, I have advised the higher officials of our side to that effect, in my belief that such discussions between the higher officials of both sides would not be of no significance.
We are well aware of the fact that this art objects problem bears delicate factors in terms of the understanding of the people as well as the political conditions concerned. In fact, some among the Japanese delegation think that the settlement of this problem is not so difficult, but actually it is difficult to readily settle down.
Mr. CHOI:
If the Asahi story is true, then why do you hesitate to settle the problem? I still cannot understand why this problem is so delicate and difficult to be settled.
Mr. ITAGAKI:
I think we had better arrange for the next meeting after a meeting between Ambassador Sawada and both Ambassador Limb and Minister Yiu on either coming Thirbday or Friday.
Mr. CHOI:
Though Mr. Itagaki is suggesting higher levels negotiations on the proceeding of the sub-committee on art objects, I would like him to know that I have not been instructed to agree on your suggestion. I believe that art objects problem should be, and is proper to be. discussed and solved at this sub-committee.
Mr. ITAGAKI:
I do not mean by the higher levels negotiations that the sub-committee on art objects will not be, but that how the proceeding should be carried out at this sub-committee in dealing with the art objects problem, is to be discussed by such meeting.
Mr. CHOI:
I would like to make it clear that our side is completely immune from any such delay in the works of this sub-committee. Further, if only the Japanese side step forward to the solution of this problem, there won't be any problem at all in connection with the "proceeding" of this sub-committee. It is clear that the delay in the "proceeding" of this sub-committee has been caused only by your side which has been avoiding definite answers to Korean request under one excuse or other.
Now, when shall we meet again?
Mr. ITAGAKI:
Let us meet on December 6 (Saturday), at 10:30 a.m.
Mr. CHOI:
No objection.
REMARKS:
Before the meeting was adjourned, the sub-committee agreed to the Joint Press Release which reads: "The sub-committee continued substantial discussions on the matter regarding Korean art objects, and it was decided that the next meeting would be held at 10:30 a.m. on December 6, 1958."